Good evening everyone.

Good evening.

All right.

Welcome.

Thank you for joining us for the final session of MSU Library's Spring Book talk series, African African-American Women Scholars on Race, racism, and Living Black in America.

I'm Christina Myers, an assistant professor in the School of Journalism here at MSU.

Consortium core faculty with the communication solutions for our diverse society.

And I'm the faculty advisor for the National Association of Black Journalists student chapter here at MSU.

The discussio this evening is part of Michigan State University sixth Annual Juneteenth Commemorative Celebration.

So before we begin our program, we have a few housekeeping notes.

We are recording the panel discussion this evening.

Therefore, we request that you please take this moment to silence your phones.

The theme of this year's Juneteenth celebration here at Michigan State University is Beyond Freedom Building Features Protecting our Past, and Activating Change.

This theme recognizes that while Juneteenth commemorates emancipation and also calls us to preserve black histories, invest in equitable futures, and continue the ongoing work of collective liberation, community empowerment, and transformative change.

In alignment with this theme, and for the final session of MSU Library's Spring Book Talk series, African American Women Scholars on Race, racism, and Living Black in America.

We are honored to welcome Doctor LeConte Dill and her debut book.

Her debut book, Soul Survivors.

Doctor Dill is a storyteller artist, educator, and scholar.

She is the Director of Graduate Studies and an associate professor in the Department of African American and African Studies at Michigan State University.

Doctor Dill's wor is critically informed by years of working in partnership with youth serving community and arts based organizations across the United States and South Africa.

In her research, teaching, art and advocacy, she aims to listen to and show up for black girls in particula and is committed to documenting their strategies of wellness, healing, and resistance.

Soul Survivors is her debut book.

Soul Survivors is a collection of persona poems where three black girl storyteller take the reader along journeys through Oakland, Atlanta and Brooklyn, respectively.

The book is informed by 15 years of the author's chameleon gaze research i and within urban neighborhoods, and the young people and organizations there.

So before we dive into th conversation with Doctor Dill, she will read a few select poems from her debut book that highlight the theme of the university's campus celebration.

So please join me in welcoming to the stage Doctor LeConte Dill.

Hello!

Thank you all for braving the weather over the river and through the woods for real, to be here.

And shout out to you, you all who will be watching this on the replay, including my mama.

I'm excited to share Soul Survivors with you.

Here at MSU here this week of commemorating Juneteenth.

There's family in the audience.

There's friends, there's colleagues, comrades, community members, and peopl that I look forward to meeting.

As Doctor Myers said, the book will take you through a journey, through three different neighborhoods, through three different characters.

But perhaps you might find some resonance, with your own experiences, things you've witnessed, things you've read about.

On the theme of freedom, I'm going to start with a couple of poems.

No more compromises.

Our greatest freedom may live in our mind.

Rezoning number two.

Peace and care have taken space.

Now.

So that is just setting the tone.

Both of those poems were erasure poems.

For those of you.

You know, I'm a professor.

I like to teach.

So for those of you literally looking at me, you will see, like, black people might call them black out poems.

So I've erased some text or the narrator.

The speakers in the book have erased some texts to remix and reframe.

They wanted to give some, narratives about liberation, about peace, about care.

But now I'm going to kind of go in order and take you all through a journey to Oakland, California, where I had the privilege of living and working and being in community for nine years.

Panthers.

Cubs.

Cubs.

The Panthers are born in the town.

Born of the town.

Made in the west.

Forced to the east.

85th and East 14th.

So I got it in my blood.

Blood.

That passion, that fire, tha bite from being caged to long.

Taunted and teased, from being misjudged, underestimated the revolution that's raised fists.

But more than that, a protest is more than a chance, more than a picket.

It's a yearning, a knowing.

It's a prayer.

It's a prayer.

Trampled, but still there.

It's when your heart skips a beat because it's finally flying free.

Rezoning number one.

No person shall use this covenant to prevent occupancy of any race.

Rituals.

This is after the dance group.

Turf fiends some dancers don't dance in studios.

They dance on blocks, on corners, in neighborhoods.

And they are dancers to after turf fiends performance of dancing in the rain.

I know from the beginning, watching an angel or two or more angels don't dance.

They boogie.

Figure skating in the Deep East.

Cross your heart and hope 5-0 keeps it rollin.

Crossing guard for caddies.

Street theater, lamp post and bus stops and curb cuts.

Cutting up court jesters don't need no castle.

They build their own.

Kingdom Rain down, rain down.

Chains low and tease long.

Fist be their pompoms.

Pounce the biggest cheer.

Can you hear a smile?

Can the smile heal the hood?

Can you hear a healing?

Oakland is known as the Speed Bump capital of the United States.

Fun fact.

Caution speed bumps ahead.

I was raised to beat the odds, to seek alternate routes, to find positive role models, to set a good example.

I was raised on the reminders that the streets were a dead end, that my body was not for sale, so do not enter the struggle.

I was scared straight.

Born to yield.

Not to any of the temptations, but I think that Jesus saves the sinners to.

And some of those sinners look just like you and me too.

And there's not just one way to be safe.

To be alright.

To be good and free.

So I don't judge.

This is a complicated jungle of concrete and palm trees, and many a detour ahead.

Those of you in the audience, I'm fine with.

I heard some ooze in the corner over there.

I'm fine with snaps.

Whoops.

Hollers.

Arsenio Hall whoop whoops.

We can be animated, especially if you know me.

If you know the content, if you know that deal.

We don't have to be serene.

I hope that's okay with WKAR.

This is what Soul Survivors is about, so feel free to to share it here.

To cry, to clap, to nod your head, and to even sit in silence and take it all in.

Any social scientists in the crowd?

So social scientists, those that work in non-profits, you know, we often have our buzzwords, our keywords have to use it for the grant report.

And so this poem, the narrator, kind of uses some of those keywords that we know we have to use, or we unpack or we theorize.

But she theorizes it, according to black young people, praxis from nouns to verbs, anchor organization verb.

Well, Miss Regina, that these are real names of real people at the East Oakland Youth Development Center.

I, I gotta give them their flowers.

So, Miss Regin calls us a hub of the community.

Like the middle circle of a wheel with hella spokes going out, making things go.

Safe haven verb.

Mr.

clock is like a pop pop.

Miss Regina says he' the real backbone of the center.

Keeping our home away from home clean, keeping us all protected.

Like knowing everybody's name and really caring about each of us.

Social capital.

Verb.

Miss Jackie makes sure we are not just surviving, but thriving.

Getting ahead.

She got the hook up.

For real?

For real.

Internships.

College fairs, elevator speeches.

Resume jobs.

Scribbler, and lots of love.

She said it's all about making our net work positive.

Youth development verb.

Mr.

Rico talks to us, like, sits down and really talks to us about respect, about our sense of character, about our goals, about his expectations for us on and off the court.

In the computer lab, on nature excursions.

Oakland Youth Development Center has all these programs and opportunities.

It's like a menu.

We can choose teams to be great.

Counter stories.

Verb.

Miss Anana works with all of us, but really the GED students, some of them are parents of youth leaders that hear about the program during pickup.

Some of them mandated to be here by the courts.

Some of them 17 and ready to be out of Oakland Unified School District.

Some of them are 19 and were pushed out of Oakland Unified School District.

And hella types of students in between.

They ain't at risk or troubled or flow or bad students or dropouts or delinquents because none of us are.

We either learn or are reminded of that here.

And we spread the word, not just mislabeled, but miss me with those labels.

Radical healing verb.

Miss Selena started coming to the East Oakland Youth Development Center when she was four.

Can you believe it?

Taking dance classes as a kid stopped coming for a while.

I need to ask her why, but they said she started hanging around here, then helping out and volunteering.

Miss Regina always say once you've been here, you're still fam no matter what.

Then Miss Selena was back at it.

Youth leader, then summer enrichment program director, then all star EOYDC alum.

We all miss Regina's kids.

But Miss Selena though.

Now she about to graduate with her master's from northwester in, you guessed it, leadership and organizational change.

Makes sense.

That's why the East Oakland Yout Development Center is all about.

I wonder if she'll come back home to the town.

It would be nice to see her.

Maybe she could do a workshop.

She be dropping gems on gems on gems about racism and activism and voice and transformation and powe and black people and our future.

Well like she says, futures with an s because we out here.

Anyone a descendant or participant of the Great Migration.

Several waves and decades of black folk moving from the south to the upper South.

Back down to the rural south.

Our east, up northeast, Midwest and West coast.

Let's not forget.

And so definitely, coming from Los Angeles working and living in Oakland.

Those were some of the stories of migration and even descendants and descendants.

Descendants know about the sojourn.

We end up where our kinfolk are all over East and West Oakland, Phil Mo, Bayview Valley, Joe sac distance only because of traffic, the freeways and all the bridges.

Cousins, brothers, mamas, aunties in law and common law.

Not intentional, but still naming hella folks like Macchia Lyonnais La Shell, LA County, neighbors next door or down the street round the corner.

But can you come out and play?

Or dropping off some food?

Must've known who's grillin on the fourth.

Maybe we remembered how to make a village hat to create something close knit, known heartbreak.

Like lay off and vigils, but mapped how to make a way ourselves something like a miracle.

We someone's prayer.

Our folks down south make us right back.

Like we promised our letters right nex to prom and graduation pictures.

Back of the curio that's been in the family for generations.

Tell them the sun, the streets, even the Capitol dome are all gold.

Them earthquakes are no joke.

Well, try to remember, my dear exact recipe.

Try to convince ourselves that it's true, that it was all worth it to spread out over this crazy, crazy country.

Catching a visit when and where we can that we're more than okay.

Will gather at a Friday, fish fry, make monkey bread like papa.

Memories of red clay and hot, hot sun.

Remember dance routines across generations and write down tales of our thriving.

I feel like that really sets the scene.

I'm going to take you through a few quick journeys, to Southwest Atlanta and to Central Brooklyn.

But we thank Michelle, the first narrator of the first part of this book.

So imagine us in the Caddie going to southwest Atlanta.

There's a Caddi on the cover of Soul Survivors.

Wave your copy if you have it on you.

Whoop Whoop Whoop.

I see yall.

You can also get it from Socialite Society Bookstore, online or in person.

Who likes reunions?

Class reunions, family reunions, neighborhood reunions, block parties, neighborhood reunion.

Every August we here at the park, us kids and the little little kid.

My mama and granny.

Of course.

Then the folks that say they my cousin and I just smile and, cause last year I asked them how they related to me and mama cut her eyes.

We family.

Okay, somebody's uncle on the grill.

And wobble with it, wobbl with it, wobble with it, wobble.

This is the most laughter I've heard in a long time.

Mama's been coming here every August since she was my age.

Granny said it used to always be laughter.

Not just in the park, but everywhere.

Was cleaner and safer to.

And where do you live now?

Are you way out?

Outside the perimeter?

I'm scared of you.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

We're still here.

Here is all I know.

Mama and grann and us kids in school, in church and lots of empty houses, and we don't go by there no more and city hall act lik they forgot about us over here.

And if these are my cousins and they call this home, why don't they stay?

Keep it clean and safe.

Keep us laughing in between.

Every August.

Hope Street southwest.

You know, in Atlanta, you got to get the northwest, southwest, the northeast or your mail will not get delivered to the right place.

Peace to the crossing guards.

The grannies waving.

Hey.

The selfie takers in every crew posing on every corner on the way, the cheerleaders and the band that greet us at the door every morning bell.

I mean, they know we coming.

From Hoke Street on the south side.

We got nowhere else to go but up.

Let's get in the Caddie, put on our seatbelts and travel up 75-85.

One of the five to New York.

Go Knicks.

I'm married to a New Yorker.

I birthed a New Yorker, s that's why I have to say that.

I am from California.

Lakers showtime, all that.

And Pistons.

Migrations migrations.

All right.

So we land in central Brooklyn, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Flatbush, East Flatbush, and Naima is going to take u through a few journeys before we go into discussion.

I think this is my discussion partners favorite poem.

She said.

Nuance.

When we speak, we too much.

When we quiet, they forget.

Black girls.

Not just one thing.

A shorty, but a goodie.

Accepted.

This is for the students.

Here come my mama texting me during lunch.

A big envelope came in the mail.

I told her, be easy.

Tabitha lol.

She told me tha I better not get beside myself and I ain't out of her house yet.

Anybody had an open house recently?

Going to college soon.

I ain't out of the house yet and bring my fast tail home right after school so we can open it together.

She's juiced, I am too, I mean, this school told me I wasn't going to graduate on time.

I transferred to an alternative school or summer school.

Or was I even cut out for a school?

Meanwhile, they stay losing my paper can't keep track of my credits.

Guidance counselor.

She cool but she been out for two weeks.

Nobody else offers guidance.

I guess.

I guide myself, glide myself on over to the computer lab, bust out these personal statements.

Mama said they real good.

My cousins too.

We all applying at the same time in a big envelope in the mail is a good sign.

They say going to have me a cap and gown, pick a major, something major like African-American African studies.

Maybe stay on campus, have a roommate, get a planner, make a plan.

Going to be a college girl after all.

It's a couple more.

Again, some for the students again, and for the freshman or the seniors or anyone in between that need some motivation.

Be yourself for the grown folks to be free.

Be kind.

Be easy.

Be fun.

Be funny.

Be on point.

Be on time.

Be on God.

Be bold.

Be ready.

Be open.

Be caring.

Be tender.

Be a good friend.

Be studious.

Be safe.

Be inspired.

Be shining.

The family reunion.

We all distant cousins.

Not like neighbors, but muster maybe had to known mapped ourselves.

We write back, tell them we'll try to visit, that we'll make memories.

Remember tales of our thriving.

Thank you.

Can we show some love to Doctor Dill again, who took us on a cross-country journey and we didn't even leave our seats.

Can we talk about it?

Thank you, Doctor Dill.

Thank you so much.

And we're going to continue that journey now.

It is no my pleasure to introduce to you our moderator for this evening.

Mrs.

Lisa Bond-Brewer is an accomplished poe and communications professional whose creative voice has been recognized in several publications including Essence Magazine, The Washington Square Review, Literary Mama and Timbuktu.

Based in Lansing, Michigan, she serves as vice president for internal communications at Health Edge while actively contributing to her community through Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, incorporated.

The links, All Right Now.

The Links and the Capital Region Community Foundation, a devoted wife, proud mother o three, and grandmother of two, she channels her passion for writing, travel, and family into all she pursues.

So before I turn the stage over Mrs.

Bond-Brewer will start off, asking the few questions, and we're saving a few minutes, 15 minutes at the end of the program for the audience to ask questions as well.

You may notice that there are pens and paper that have been on your chairs, so please feel free to write down your questions throughout the discussion to ask our panel.

And once you have your question written down, please signal to a staff member currently waving their hands and they will come collect your questions and bring them to me.

I would also like to echo Docto Dillon saying please feel free to show some love.

If you want to clap your hands, stomp your feet, wave your hand.

Please make sure they hear that sounds fair.

Without further ado, please join me in welcoming back to the stage Doctor LeConte Dill and Mrs.

Lisa Bond-Brewer.

So we're here, okay?

Okay.

Hello everyone.

I am so honored to be here with you today.

I love this book and thank you for reading my favorite poem.

So I have a lot of questions to ask, but I know I only have like about 15 minutes, so we'll leave it for others to ask questions as well.

So to get started with Katie I think it's really interesting that you spent these 15 years doing this, research with girls in East Oakland, southwest Atlanta and East Flatbush.

At what point did you know that a poetry collection could hold wha traditional research couldn't?

I knew it in Oakland.

So when I was a Doctoral student at UC Berkeley, I was studying public health.

And I had already been practicing public health in communities, at non-profits and health departments.

But I went back to get my Doctorate.

I knew that art had to be part of my study.

I've been a poet longer than I've been a scholar, since I was a young person.

And I've studied poetry in informal and formal spaces, from grabbin books from my mama's bookshelf and in black bookstores like social like Society.

Shout out again.

But also as a creative writing minor in college at Spelman, taking or being invited into fellowships and workshops like Callaloo and Comic-Con.

And also just being in community with other writers.

And so I knew that, I needed or wanted to bring both of those studies together.

And, in working with young people, I invited them afte I was spending time with them, hanging out with them, asking them formal questions as a ethnographers for my dissertation research, I invited them in, in to kind of be co scholars and do members checking what we say, about wha I had heard in the interviews.

And I did that through poetry.

So we would read a poem by Gwendolyn Brooks when she's talking about violence in Chicago in the 1950s, and then compare it to what they were talking about in their interviews about violence or safety or trying to stay saf in Oakland in 2010, 2011 and see what makes sense in black people Write sonnets.

Yeah.

Gwendolyn Brooks is one of th best science writers out there.

And so we use poetry to analyze that research data.

So I did this workshop, but I was don with that part of the research, and they were like, oh, you'r a poetry workshop teacher now?

The, the youth center where I partnered with, had a lot of, like, you heard about the menu of activities.

But they didn't have a poetry workshop.

And so I being a steward o the community, ended up giving, like a two month poetry workshop.

And, it was always my intention that, like, this data is the young people and is the community organizations.

It's not just minds as a scholar.

And so I was like, oh, I'll type up the poems and give them back to the and they can do what they want.

But that typing up turned into 80 pages and so while this is my debut book, my first co-written, co-edited book, is calle Why You Got to Call It Ghetto, and that was the poetry book that emerged from these workshops, these 80 pages.

It's not just the thing that was on top of my dissertation, like a side project.

And so that showed me that it's not just like a one off or a fluke, or some people are like, you only got to do that poetry thing because you at Berkeley.

But know, like, this i scholarship, this is study too.

And so I took that practic with me in the different areas and kne and take it into the classroom.

And I don't have to just be teaching creative writing.

I could be teaching black studies or sociology or public health, but poetry teaches me so much and has taught my students an so it's been with me ever since.

Okay, okay.

So you've spen your career documenting, black girls strategies of, wellness and resistance.

How much of this book is about you?

Good question.

I, I, I realized with this book, so I've published a lot about my experiences with the young people.

I've published in peer reviewed articles and book chapters and presented at conferences.

But I also felt that there were some voices that didn't make, the dissertation or the peer review or the article.

There were some literal young people that weren't in the formal program or weren't invited in the study.

They might have been in the hallway at the school, or they might have been, outside of the youth center, but they were still in community, so I still was observing them or listenin to them or curious about them.

But als I was in each of those cities.

And so me as a researcher, as a poet, as a poetry teacher, as, you go pick up some food, give this person a ride, like the multiple, what?

My comrade and friend, Doctor Keisha Green calls, double Dutch.

As a researcher, double Dutch methodology.

Like the different ways, particularly black scholars.

We can kind of do it all.

We need to if for really being in right relationship.

So as I was double Dutch saying in these various roles, in these various spaces, I was like, I'm not absent, I'm not erased from the work.

And so I think that I definitely like, leaned into those different voices of myself, like some of the poems are like me as a researcher and things that didn't get i the previous research, things.

Some things are like me as a poet, like, let me try this sonnet, let me try this.

What would it mean to eras something that had been there?

Me, as a little black girl growing up in South Central and who wish I would have ha a youth development center or, a mentorship.

I mean, I had different activities, but some of the program that I worked with as an adult, I was like, I needed that, I still need it.

And so I definitely think I'm in there.

But I also feel like I got more work coming that's going to be even more.

Meet me, me.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Exciting.

Okay, so I love the structure of Soul Survivors.

In it you created three distinct voices with Le Shell, Apri and Naima, and each are rooted in a different place in a specific, vernacular.

How did you write a girl who wasn't you?

And how did you know when you got in her right.

Okay, great.

Good question.

So I relisten to the tape.

So the interviews that I did with young people in those three cities, I relisten to them and to me, I also maybe that's I'm married to a deejay, but sound in the sonic is, maybe unconscious sometime part of just my learning and so, I was really conscious of, like I didn't want to put on a voice.

Like, I didn't want to, like act or like you so much slang.

But I did want to vernacular this as a poet, like, my one of my poetry teachers, Gregory Partlow, talks about like, oh, you, you use a black feminist vernacular.

And I was like, thank you.

So I think, again, listening to the tapes, listening to music from those areas was really important to me.

I did share some of the draf poems with people who were then young people, but now are grown, grown, that I had been in community with, with my research assistants who were either an undergrad or grad school and now are professors, but who had either wer from those same neighborhoods.

And then as I've taken the book on the road, so even just a little faith I think two because it was out.

But as I've gon like I was in New York in March and like I heard them like I heard even in here.

Right?

I wasn't specifically talking about Michigan, but I heard them.

And so I heard that in New York, like the laughter at the right places in them.

And I'm like, oh, okay.

First of all if I could make it in New York, if you could make it there, you can make it anywhere.

But I, I just again want it to be true and not like a caricature.

And a it resonated.

So again, taking it out into the world or into various spaces and where there is a crowd of two people or 100 people and everything in between has been me again, like battle testing the work.

Okay, okay.

So since this draws on your research, but poetry operates by a different set of rules.

This scholarship.

So where do these two discipline kind of pull against each other?

And how did you resolve that kind of tension?

Okay, Doctor Bambi.

Next career?

I asked starting our PhD program.

Applications go live.

Okay.

First, so the way I lear and write poetry, I think about there are rules and black poets particularly that I follow, like Gwendolyn Brooks, like June Jordan.

Talk about like the main rule is to tell your truth.

Like Lucille Clifton writes really short concise poems that pack a punch.

So, like telling your truth.

And I can't tell you what your truth is.

There might be some rules, like a sonnet is there's many syllables or a haiku.

Is this many lines?

But also black poets have broken those rules and then made a new rule.

Sonia Sanchez created a song cube named after her.

And so I think that, like I approach poetry, but I think I also approac my scholarship in similar ways, like that authenticity that like, if you've been in my class or will be in my class or just in my space, like it' okay to go in class, like it's okay to cry in class, it's okay to, to respectfully disagree.

And so that authenticity, I think, cuts across the poetry and the, the academic scholarship.

They brush against each other.

I think I have spent a lot of tim like teaching other academics.

My rules, my rigor.

I, I tend to use the word careful these days more than rigor, but the kind of care that I attend to, the poetry and the poetry as research, I find myself teaching, other academics.

So either teaching through an article or teaching through a workshop.

And I find myself sometimes like, narrating or mapping a bit more than I want to, but that's again, a map.

So it's like leading somewhere, someone, somewhere, where they hadn't been before.

So I think it's sometimes I get frustrated with like how much I have to detail on the map, but it's important.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So given that given that we're here, I keep forgetting to raise the mic.

Okay.

Given that we're here during Juneteenth week, and Juneteenth celebrates resistance and resilience.

Liberation.

Freedom.

Which poems did you fee were right for reading tonight?

You read a whole series.

But how did you select tha in relationship to the holiday?

Yeah.

So I really do try to curate my readings to like, where I'm going.

So whether it be place or theme or what's happening in current events.

And so today I was kind of just flipping with the book and like the book is also telling me.

So sometimes like some books are like Oracle.

Right.

And so sometimes was like a flipping like, oh yeah.

I read a few that I hadn't read that often in the spring in my like, book tour.

But I was looking for themes of, of freedom, liberation, how the narrators were either like writing, like even with their erasure, like writing towards some freedom.

That tongue in cheekiness.

I try, I have some sadder, depressing, like, based on real tragedy and trauma.

I not that that isn't part of like how we understand Juneteenth, right?

Like we it was resisting and being free from our whole system of trauma.

But I was trying to find, maybe some levity.

And what?

And freedom is not just like joy in skipping down the street, but, again, ways to kind of like coalition with the audience, too.

Okay.

So each of the three communities that you set the poems in, have been reshaped by policy and economics and gentrification.

Your book focuses on girls whose families stayed, is they stayed in these cities.

So what are they carrying that the research literature tends to, miss.

Yeah.

Great question.

So when I was in grad school again, I was studying public health, but I also was invited to study across discipline and be what, transdisciplinary.

So I actually took a lot of classes in urban planning.

And like you said, gentrification.

We kind of use that term a lot.

But as I began taking more urban planning classes, I realized like, well, that's just one policy and practice that's related to but different from outmigration.

White outmigration is different than black outmigration.

The foreclosure crisis is related, but different.

And I began to even loo chronologically and and again, look at like, oh, it happened in this state, this way.

But then so I was doing all this study in urban planning, but at the same time, some of my urban planning classes were literally in community.

So we were studying the theory, and study globally, but also going to a neighborhood center in San Francisco or going to a churc meeting in Oakland and kind of, again, testing theory.

And I'm forgetting par of the whole question about, oh, like how, how the, the policies and of it.

Yes.

So, so that was I did this deep study and I was living and experiencing it in witnessing in Oakland.

And during the time when I was living in the Bay area, San Francisco, Gavin Newsom was the mayor at the time, and he had created it out a black outmigration task force, and had even tapped a scholar Doctor, Sean John Wright, to, like, do a research report o let's stop black outmigration.

But by the time a task force was assembled, black people had already been pushed out, had moved, have moved back down south, had had to live with family members and crowd in, had gone various places.

And I was wondering, like I had questions about the why, but the policy intervention.

Let's start a task force was belated.

I think San Francisco maybe has 3%, and that's kind of, higher estimate of black people now and again, if you think about the histories of black migration, it was a hub for the Great Migration.

And so the task force was belated.

That was kind of like a Band-Aid.

That was kind of like, see, we tried, but it was kind of too late.

And so I as, one of my mentors Doctor Nikki Jones, suggested, like as I moved for career and otherwise to ask similar questions in the similar cities and I realized I saw some resonance, but I also saw some nuance.

So the, the, the, the industrialization like we see here in Michigan.

Right.

Oakland is actually called the Detroit of the West.

So we see the industrialization, not just gentrification happening there.

We see the foreclosure crisis in southwest Atlanta hitting the Pittsburgh neighborhood two years before it hit the country.

Nationally, we see, yes, Brooklyn and New York City being ravaged by gentrification.

But we also see the huge Caribbean population in central Brooklyn actually having different strategie to stave off the gentrification.

With all these patty, patty houses and, and jerk chicken.

And we're outside on the street and we have our flags and we're like our code, like the culture was a resistance to that.

And I was like, the research literature is not talkin about that, only a few people.

And so I love to talk abou what's not being talked about.

And so bringing those kind of nuanced things and also bringing things in from literature like the urban planning, people might be talking about this in the public health people.

Everybody's talking about a community garden, but nobody's talking about like, what about the growth?

Yeah.

Or wha about the Caribbean population or what about foreclosures in the Atlanta?

They were like, kids should walk to school, but kids and parent didn't want to walk to school.

If half the block is foreclosed, that's not safe.

So I wanted to bring out thos things that aren't brought out.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's great.

So each speaker introduce herself to whoever will listen.

So who did you write this book for?

And has that answer shifted now that the book is out in the world?

So it's not exactly like a young adult book, even though the, the voices as you heard were like speaking from that black girlhood voice.

Some of my dear friends and, and colleagues, poets do write young adult, novels in verse.

This is really for adults and possible changemakers.

So I've seen the power of poetry in the hand of a legislature, legislator, and them like, you know, maybe sparking their consciousness or the poem being just a important as the policy brief.

The spoken word at an event being just as powerful as another type of testimony.

This is for researchers.

Definitely.

Like I' pushing back against resilience, even though I built a career talking about adolescent resilience.

But again, for particularly for black folks, we born resilient.

So it's not like a benchmark.

It's a baseline.

So what is above that?

What metrics?

Are we not even counting or are not even studying or measuring?

So it's definitely for scholars.

It's for policymakers, it's for funders.

Particularly I talked about like the buzzwords are, are thos the right words, like, are those even the things again, thinking about measures.

I even thoug I've been an evaluator we aren't usually are always evaluating the right thing.

When I was working in Brooklyn, there was a evaluato from the city that was funding our organization, but they were asking so they were funding a violence prevention initiative, and they were like, how many stabbings did you all prevent this week and not right.

Thank you for a second.

Your teeth was very Brooklyn.

Whoever did that.

So not that there aren't stabbings and shootings, but there were so many other types of violences that no one was asking about.

No one was asking about sexual harassment.

No one's asking about sexual assault that many, like 90% of the young people that are experienced.

By ninth grade, no one was asking about school push out, which now Doctor Monique Colson has written and toured and and made interventions around.

But pushing literally black girls out of schools, that's a type of institutional violence.

That wasn't captured by the evaluation form.

And so, yeah, it's again, lifting u those things that are nuanced.

Yeah.

So you've done readings of Soul Survivor in, New York, Michigan and other places.

So what has surprised you most about how people are receiving this book, and what are they bringing to it that you didn't anticipate?

So I think, something really interesting.

I was at a reading in Ann Arbor and, only a few people were there, including my comrade, comrade and home homie, Marcus Davis, who's also, capturing Soul Survivors and my other work digitally and in video and visual form.

And then one of the other persons was a former student and her partner.

And so I actually recruited people at the bookstore.

I'm like, if you're not busy, you're shopping around, come and sit.

And although that was kind of maybe risky of me, they stayed for the reading.

And at first I was like maybe they're just being nice.

And it's only like now six people here and they don't want to leave, but they they were like, oh my gosh, I work at a nonprofit with young people.

And then the friend was like oh my gosh, I work at a school.

Can you come?

And so that I think surprised it didn't didn't surprise me like I did it right.

But I was glad it was like a good surprise.

Like, yes, go with your instinct.

Like, go with me.

You're my nature of building community, of inviting people in.

Because those people like, that's who the book is for.

And they didn't know me.

They hadn't come for the reading, but they got so much and I got so much from seeing what they were getting.

So that was a happy surprise.

Again, the resonance that warmth, the laughter again.

I invite that in.

So I want that some people at my book launch that was here in our department of.

Yes, people were like, oh I thought this was going to be a book reading.

And it was, but it was also a party.

We had, we had deejay, my husband, you know, we had, soul food.

We had people literally doing the wobble.

We had, young people in Michigan from Lansing performing, reading, poetry, dancing.

And that's part of the work.

And so I think, I think sometimes the, the quietness sometimes surprises me, but I think it's also me kind of like, inviting people that like, we can, we can be a different way in readings, even if it's in a studio or if it's in a bookstore or if it's in a church.

We can make some noise because the girls do, too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So now that you're in Michigan.

Okay.

And you are listening to what black girlhood looks like in this state.

What are you listening for and what would you what would it take for you to find a chapter to create a chapter to take form based on this, the state.

Yeah.

So listening is a great practice of mine.

I have been, honored and privileged to live here for almost five years, and part of my practice as again, being in right relationship community is listening.

And so it was important for me not to just jump in what some people call like helicopter research.

Like, although I'm new here, like I'm an expert.

And so part of that listening, and thinking about, like, black girlhood has been like some of our students in the Department of African-American studies, although they're adults, are emerging adults, they're still girlhood is not age dependent.

Right.

And so, even being in community with them, doing poetry workshops, doing meditation workshops, but also listening and learning with the and many of them from Michigan, from different parts of the state.

But more recently, also partnering with organizations like Dream World, studio for the Arts, grit, glam and guts.

Hanging out, all the above hip hop.

And so just being in spaces, particularly art led organizations and, youth development organizations where young people are, and, I think part of that is like even think about space.

There's not a lot of youth centered spaces, right?

The bowling alley currently close.

The the roller skating rink is no.

One part of town, an we see that around the country.

And so I think I'm realizing that, like space might look different in not just here, but I think just around the like malls are shuttering.

Right?

So the young person might b inside or they might be gaming or they might be, connecting in different ways.

And so it' thinking about the organizations and the mentors and the leaders that are still connecting and partnering with them.

So, there's some there's some things coming with some possibly some local orgs.

Okay.

So, this is going to be my last question.

They will open it up for the audience.

You have anothe poetry collection that's coming, Building a Maker Out of Me, forthcoming from Third World Press.

So what can you tell us about that work and how does it sit in conversation with Sole Survivor?

So I actually finished building a maker out of me first.

But again, I, I've learned to surrender and listen to the work.

So this baby wanted to be born first.

And it is here.

Building a maker out of me is also a book of poetry.

And it's, more personal.

So it's informed by my journey to become a mother.

You know, the end.

Becaus the six year old is over here.

But it was a very trying and tumultuous journey.

And again, because nuanc and kind of bringing things from the shadow is kind of important to me, uplifting stories of, like, delayed infertility and infertility and pregnancy loss and challenges, bu also birthing as a black person, which we know in this countr and this world is no easy feat.

We know that from the statistical, we know from anecdotes, we know from lived, embodied experiences.

So I'm talking about my journe through poetry in using poetry.

But I'm also I, mined the archives, whether that be popular culture, or literal archives and figures that we may know about but might not, we?

When Nipsey Hussle passed away, there was an, an interview, of hi talking about his grandmother, and she had 11 miscarriage between his uncle and his mother and he's like, if my grandmother didn't keep trying, then my mother wouldn't have been her and I wouldn't have been here.

And so even kind of uplifting, even though it's kind of traumatizing, uplifting those narratives.

And so that's what building a maker out of me is.

And I'm really excited, for that to come out.

And then I'm also working on, play, which is using poetry.

So a choreo poem.

And I'm really excited about that.

And I'm really excited to delve more into, like, the theater and dance elements that lend there.

My poetry lends itself to, like I was kind of theatrical on the stage, I think, like, yo y'all saw that and dancing too.

I'm a dancer as well, and so I'm excited to kind of bring, that.

And I've been in conversatio with dancers here, in Lansing.

Who, musicians who also, might help me kind of bring literally the work to life.

Well, thank you fo letting me ask all my questions.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining.

Yeah.

So this the thank you so much, ladies.

Do we have any audience questions.

If you have a wave your hands how had WKF come around and collect them for you while we're collecting the audience question since I'm a part of the audience and one question as well.

My question to you is, you know, we're we're here at MSU workers House, here at Commerce site.

And I'm curious in terms of, these voices that you use of these young people to express themselves in those ways.

And so as educators, I'm imagining what lessons can we learn from taking the stories and what you've given us.

And so Soul Survivors and kind of anchoring them in our different departments, what what can we teach our young people?

But what can we teach our students in all of us about using our voices an exercising them in various ways?

Thank you for that question.

So I'm actually i the development of a syllabus.

For Soul Survivors that will also be published, published in the peer review.

So that helps me and help you all y'all, at the same time.

But yeah, I really want this to be a teaching tool.

Kind of like I said, the the people that were in the audience in Ann Arbor, you know, from K-12 to higher ed, I think there are, a lot of lessons, even a lot of times.

And the audience kind of cam because at the end of the poem or like most of the a lot of the poems, the girls are like asking a question kind of to the reader, to the audience, and kind of making you like pause or think or call yourself in.

And so I think that really lends itself to the classroom to like, oh, or eve I have some footnotes in here, but they're written from the girls voices.

And so, wait, let me look up what this girl is citing.

Like let me pull up that, that piece of legislation or like, let me look at that book.

She's talking about her.

Where is this neighborhood?

And why is this neighborhood makes it that way?

But there's different socio economic studies.

So I think that, it's definitel I look forward to being taught.

Absolutely.

And and speaking of that, we have a question from the audience.

Kat said, now, what are some books or, articles, poets that you can suggest for a new teache of AP African-American studies for her to read herself and for her students to read.

So let's definitely partner and, with our department, because we have been in differen AP classrooms, but, in addition to me I want to shout out my friend, Mahogany Al Brown who is a poet and an organizer.

She's one of the people that has delved into the novels and verse.

But she started out self-publishing, and now is represented by one of the big five.

She's also spent the last two years as poet in residence at Lincoln Center and is doing things in theater and things globally.

And she has a, our students and triple A as three years ago read one of her books, clearing Sky.

And then we traveled to Chicago and saw because it was adapted for the stage at Steppenwolf.

So her work is definitely teachable.

I think music again is important to me.

So thinking about, using music maybe even some of the artists there like mentioned in this book or in other poets work, and kind of using that along with the text, what else?

Like I said kind of looking generationally.

So like whe and how does a Gwendolyn Brooks writing a sonnet in, 1950, in Chicago, compare to a sonnet that's in Soul Survivors, a sonnet based in I have a sonnet, called East Flatbush Sonnet.

So thinking about a sonnet that I wrote based on my work in like 2013 and 2016, in New York, like, how are those sonnets eve in conversation with each other?

And then you could also teach the, the form of a sonnet that, and sometimes when we learn finance in high school, that made us like fall aslee or say that we hate it poetry.

But if it's a sonnet maybe written by smart somebod from a marginalized community, how does that, like, awaken the person and and think about the form as well as the context, but happy to talk more about the classroo and our next audience question.

Do you offe workshops on how they combine?

So, you know, we're excited to learn about poetry and scholarship for youth practitioners.

Researchers want to hear more about that.

Yeah.

So I love giving poetry workshops.

I've learned, that again, they don't just happen in the classroom.

So again, I'm bringing poetry in no matter what subject I'm teaching.

But I also so I just met with some staff this week at, Capital District Library.

Actually one of our former students, at MSU, is working a several former students work at the library.

But, there's no curren like, regular poetry workshop.

And I'm thinking about the downtown branch, a lot of housing insecure young people.

Come to the library to hang out, to stay safe, to stay warm and want something to do.

So that was like, literally real time, like conversation.

This week about maybe me offering something regularly.

I'm also, been talking to other like, nonprofits.

I'm also thinking about capacity.

So but again, I'm also around like building the village.

And so like I said, former student, it's not just me, it's my colleagues.

We have several poets, including Lansing's poet laureate in our department of, AAAS.

A lot of our student are artists in their own right.

So I, I think something's emerging.

So.

Yeah, but I would love we could talk more.

Whoever asked that question.

Absolutely.

How can we follow you to learn more about all that you are doing?

So I'm on Instagram at Doc Dale today.

Because I do teach them.

Also, my website is my first name, last name.com lecontedill.com.

Check out our department here in North Quincy.

Second floor.

People are also happily surprised at, like, we have a mural by local artist, Mila Lin.

We have a recording studio, we have a wellness room, we have, noise.

We and people have done sound healing in our department.

So, you can find me on the second floor of Nort Kedzie during the academic year.

Not in the summer, because it's time for rest.

That's right.

Thank you so much.

Please, can we please show some love and appreciatio to our panelists this evening, as all the time we have for our discussion, a special thank you to our presenting partners, MSU libraries, the Department of African and African American Studies, MSU Juneteenth Camera Celebration.

Of course WKAR.

Thank you again.

Doctor LeConte Dill.

Mrs.

Lisa Bond-Brewer yes.

Yay.

Yes.

And thank you all for joining us for this discussion.

Events like this from WKA are made possible with support from people like you.

So thank you so much.

We would like to invite you to join us for a special meet and greet in the back of the room.

You can purchase a copy of Soul Survivors from Nichelle, a Socialite society, and get your copy signed by Doctor Dill.

So thank you again for joining us.

Have a wonderful evening.