- [Announcer] "Milwaukee's Next Mayor, A Conversation With The Candidates."

Bob Donovan and Cavalier Johnson share their vision for the future of Milwaukee.

Presented by Milwaukee PBS, CBS 58 News, and WMLW and 89.7 WUWM Milwaukee's NPR.

For "Milwaukee's Next Mayor, A Conversation With The Candidates," here's your host, Mike Strehlow.

(calm music) - Hello, I'm Mike Strehlow from the CBS 58 News team, and I'm your moderator for tonight's conversation.

We are just days away from Tuesday, April 5th, a special general election, which was called after long-time Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett resigned to become U.S.

Ambassador to Luxembourg.

Two mayoral candidates advanced from a field of seven in the primary.

Those candidates are here in the Milwaukee PBS studio.

Acting Mayor Cavalier Johnson and former Milwaukee Alderman Bob Donovan.

Thank you both for being here, gentlemen.

Also joining us are our two reporters, who will be asking the main questions.

Everett Marshburn from Milwaukee PBS and Maayan Silver from 89.7 WUWM Milwaukee's NPR.

Before we begin, I want to present some guidelines.

While this is not a debate, we still want to keep the conversation moving.

So, each candidate will have a maximum of two minutes to answer a question.

Toward the end of the program, each candidate will have a brief closing statement.

Before the show, we did a coin flip to see which candidate will start with the first answer to the first question, that will be candidate Donovan.

Then candidate Johnson will be the first to present his closing statement.

Let's begin with one of the main issues facing the City of Milwaukee, crime and public safety, including reckless driving.

Just last night, in a neighborhood on Milwaukee's south side, homes and a car riddled with bullets really speaks to the problem of violent crime in this city.

Let's begin the questioning with Maayan and Everett.

Maayan?

- Thank you, Mike.

The Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's Office says the county is on pace to record more than 300 homicides this year, if trends continue.

And the majority of those homicides are happening in the city.

How much of the uptick in violence has been impacted by the pandemic?

And voters want specifics as to your plans for the city to minimize all of this crime and violence.

Candidate Donovan?

- Well, thanks for the question.

I will say this.

I think perhaps some of it is due to COVID or this whole period of the last two years.

We have seen chaos reign in Milwaukee.

And I simply do not believe that there is any hope of restoring order and stability to our streets and neighborhoods without providing the Milwaukee Police Department with the appropriate level of manpower.

We have cut, over the years, hundreds of positions.

Those are hundreds of officers that aren't there to respond to our calls for help.

Not there to proactively patrol and prevent crime.

Not there to pull over and deal with our reckless driving pandemic.

So, having said that, that's number one.

We need to begin that process.

There are other steps that can be taken, certainly, working with community groups and other organizations to prevent crime as much as possible, but it is essential that we refill those positions.

In addition, we need to ensure that our district attorneys and our judges are holding our criminals accountable for their crimes.

It seems to me, every time we hear of some horrendous crime being committed, it's perpetrated by an individual, a record a mile long, should not have even been out on the street in the first place.

So, those are critical components to begin the process of restoring order to our community.

- Candidate Johnson?

- Yeah, you're absolutely correct.

And COVID certainly has played a role in the uptick in crime and violence that we've seen in large cities across the country, Milwaukee is no exception of that.

And we need to have holistic public safety in order to address the problems that we have on the streets of Milwaukee.

That's why in the public safety plan that I put forward, as well as the reckless driving plan, the comprehensive reckless driving plan, that I put forward, we talk about those things, and we're working to implement those things as we speak.

So, holistic public safety means, having the adequate number of police officers.

And it's something that I wanna see and something that I've been fighting for.

It also means working to have mental health services that are available to folks in our community.

It also makes...

It also looks to make sure we have earlier interventions in the lives of young people.

It also is making sure that we have true family-supporting opportunities for the people who live right here in our city.

And we really wanna get to the root cause of public safety.

Then we have to make sure that the folks who live in our city, the folks who live in our neighborhoods, have stability in our lives.

That's what I want to get to.

That's what I'm working on right now.

So, we're implementing our plans, and we've had conversations with the district attorney, with the chief judge for Milwaukee County, that has had the state come in to make an investment of tens of millions of dollars in our public safety apparatus here at Milwaukee, and we'll be working to implement those plans as we continue to move forward here, so to address this very important issue that Milwaukeeans all across the city are concerned about.

- In a few brief moments, what specifically should the city do to address this problem?

- The city should do a number of things, implementing the reckless driving plan that I laid out, which we're actually doing right now, working to change the built infrastructure to stop people from being able to drive recklessly, working to use federal funds that have come in in order to bolster the capabilities of our police as well, and use, again, multi-pronged approaches to tackling the issue of public safety.

- Can I respond?

- Candidate Donovan, yes.

I see you would like to respond.

- Yeah, simply saying this.

Cavalier, the bottom line is, you, for the last two years, have been sitting at the very pinnacle of city authority as the president of the common council.

Your votes have contributed to this problem that we're faced with.

You have proposed nothing, and quite frankly, the other day you said publicly, you haven't had time to implement your public safety plan.

So, that's the reality.

And the decisions that our previous administration and our city leaders have made over the last several years have helped create the mess we're in.

That's the reality.

- Candidate Johnson, how do you respond to that?

- If I could have a moment.

Yeah, look.

What was said was that it was not fully implemented.

And some of our plans require us to work with other levels of government.

Like the legislature, that currently is not in session.

So, it's not as if we're not implementing our plans, we currently are, right?

That's why we invested $8.5 million to tackle the issue of reckless driving.

That's why we've invested millions of dollars into the office of bonds prevention.

That's why we're working with the police department in order to make sure that they have the staffing to address the issues that we have here.

But Bob, you were on the council for 20 years and you snipe from the outside with these policies or these budget amendments that were unworkable, and you were never even able to get the council to eight votes to implement your plans, to implement your visions.

So, it'd be hard for you to get to this adequate number of police officers, 2000 that you've claimed before, when you can't even get the council to eight votes.

So, leadership requires us to get people on the same page in order to get things done.

And that's exactly what I did with the cops.

It was controversial, but we made it happen.

- We have some other questions regarding public safety.

Everett Marshburn?

- Yes, thanks, Mike.

Community activists have long argued that more police don't necessarily mean better public safety.

And specifically they point out that the suburbs aren't as intentionally policed as a city, yet they tend to seem safer, because residents basic needs are being met.

How do you agree?

Do you agree, and how would you address the underlying root causes of violence as opposed to taking retroactive steps?

Candidate Johnson?

- Yeah.

That's a great question, and one that I'm happy to address.

Throughout this campaign, I've talked about the need for us to have holistic public safety.

I just said it in one of my previous answers here.

Police are a very important part of our public safety infrastructure.

We need police, and we should have an adequately staffed police department in Milwaukee, that's what I wanna see.

That's in large part why I'm trying to work with legislators in Madison to make sure we have the resources to fund public safety, including police, including fire.

But I understand that it's not just police.

In the 21st century, in 2022, we should understand that, right?

And that's why I talk about holistic public safety.

So, not just police, but also mental health services.

Also earlier interventions with the lives of young people.

Just the other day, I had the opportunity to work with our city and make sure that city workers have the opportunity to mentor young people in Milwaukee.

We need more things like that taking place right here in our city.

We should have violence prevention efforts expanded upon in Milwaukee to interrupt violence before it even starts in our city and at the root, at the very root.

And I've seen this growing up.

We need the people in the city to have access to true family-supporting jobs, so that the people and the neighborhoods are stable.

That's how you get to true public safety.

That's what I wanna see.

- Candidate Donovan?

- I would say this, nobody, including myself, has said, police are the only answer.

That's absurd.

But we need to provide our police with the appropriate manpower, get back to the level where they were much more effective in the role that they play.

In addition to that, I am all for community activities, working in conjunction with community associations, preventing crime from occurring, but we have an obligation to ensure that the agencies we're funding are productive in getting that job done.

I have always been a believer that many good programs exist in other communities that we need to copy and bring to Milwaukee.

One example is what's going on in Boston.

And their success rate while during this period where crime has gone up across the nation in major cities, including Milwaukee, Boston has bucked that trend, and we need to find out why.

One of the things that they're doing is working the police in conjunction with their clergy, and intervening in young people's lives at a much earlier age.

I would agree with my opponent on that issue.

Certainly, the mental health problem is a crisis situation.

We do need to have the experts available, working hand in hand with the police, but they need to be available 24/7, going out on particular calls with our police officer.

Because oftentimes they're just working nine to five, while crime and these issues go on all the time, every day, and all times of the day and night.

- Gentlemen, you both touched on it in your opening responses.

Maayan, you have a question about police community relations and the importance of it in any community.

- Yes.

Incidents of police brutality around the country, including the murder of George Floyd in 2020, highlighted afraid relations between police officers and communities of color across the country, including Milwaukee.

What's your plan to improve this situation, starting with candidate Donovan?

- For years, I have been a huge advocate of foot patrol and bicycle officers connecting with the citizens they're protecting and vice versa.

There is no better way to improve police community relations.

Study after study proves that, than this form of policing.

Now, that's not the only kind of policing we can implement.

But having said that, we've got probably a good 50, or 60, or 70 neighborhoods in Milwaukee that could benefit immensely from that kind of policing.

In addition, I would want to work closely with our schools to ensure that our officers are visiting our schools on a regular basis, and that we do have school resource officers in many of our schools.

That relationship that can be developed between that officer who's committed to working with those kids can be a wonderful thing.

In addition, there was a program years ago that we need to bring back in Milwaukee.

It was called STOP, students talking it over with police.

This was an excellent, award-winning program, that for whatever reason, probably due to politics over the years, it just vanished.

We need to bring that back.

And having those officers connecting in a very positive way with our young people to begin the process of improving those kinds of relationships that are critical to improving safety in our neighborhoods.

- Candidate Johnson?

- Yeah.

The murder of George Floyd was certainly a flashpoint for race relations and the police community relations in the United States.

It highlighted something that we already knew, right?

That there was this contentious relationship between the two and something that we desperately have to work on, and continue to work on day over day.

So, this is what we did when I was on the council.

I led a number of initiatives, urging the fire employees commission to adopt some policies, to have reforms to the police department, so that the police department and the community could collaborate better.

As I said here before, police will tell you that they alone cannot solve the problems that we have with public safety.

It's gonna take the community to be a part of that solution.

And so laying the foundation, having new rules of engagement, where the police in the community come together and work on these things is critical.

And so, that's why we put that forward.

As Alderman Donovan said, look, having police to go out into the community and engage with folks on the ground is great.

And that's something that I support and wanna see too.

However, at the same time, it goes back to what I was saying about addressing the real root cause issues, 'cause it can't just be police, right?

If we're gonna have programs like that to be successful, then the neighborhoods need to be stable.

It's gonna be really hard for police to develop these long term relationships with residents, when folks are moving in and outta neighborhoods every two months, right?

So, we have to make sure that there's stability in the lives of the citizens in Milwaukee, so that they can work with their neighbors and the police.

That's how you get to the true public safety that we're talking about.

- Candidate Johnson, do you agree with candidate Donovan that police resource officers should return to MPS schools?

We're talking inside the schools.

Of course, we knew of the shooting that took place at a Milwaukee high school a few months back, where five people were injured outside during a sporting event.

Should officers be returned to schools?

- Hey, look, I don't believe that police necessarily need to be inside the classroom.

I've not called for that.

What I would like to see, though, is that police are able to be on hand at schools, especially after school when things are more likely to happen, more likely to pop off.

When you look at some of the dangerous, reckless driving activity that's happened on the school grounds, particularly at MPS schools and I know some other schools too, it happened after the bell rang.

It happened when students let out.

So, I don't think that police necessarily need to be in the classroom or necessarily need to be posted up at a locker when a kid's getting their books, or watching over them when they're eating lunch.

But after school, when things are likely to happen, then it's appropriate to have police, but there should be better relationships between the police and the schools and students.

- Candidate Donovan, a quick response.

- We just can't have our police coming after the fact.

We need officers, the appropriate officers, in our schools, connecting with students, creating those relationships that are so critical, so that they can prevent crime, or prevent the fight, or the disturbance from occurring.

That's the whole purpose of having them in our schools.

- Public safety, of course, is a major factor in a city's livability ranking.

And Everett's been digging into the importance of a city's image.

- Yeah, exactly.

Milwaukee has an image problem.

It's painted as one of the most dangerous and segregated cities in the nation.

Many in the suburbs are afraid to come into the city, and a Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce survey last year showed that Hispanic and African Americans, are not likely to recommend Milwaukee as a place to live.

How do you specifically plan to change the image in both of these instances?

We'll start with candidate Johnson.

- Yeah, that's a great question.

And as I said just the other day, those responses from people of color, African Americans, Latinos, in our community are not particularly surprising, because of the history that we've had in this community, some of which you talked about, in terms of the segregation that we've seen, historically, in Milwaukee, and in terms of opportunities to have economic mobility in Milwaukee, too.

It used to be in this city, we had the highest quality of life for African Americans in the United states, but that sadly has not been the case for some time.

That's what I wanna get back to.

I wanna get back to being a community where folks, not only the folks who live here, but folks across the country who are looking for a new opportunity, a new way forward, can come and find family-supporting work, work that can stabilize themselves and stabilize their family.

It's critically important that we work to do that and to recognize, as the City of Milwaukee did and I voted to support this, recognizing the institutions that we've had in terms of racism.

The Milwaukee County was the first and the City of Milwaukee followed shortly thereafter, declaring racism a public health crisis.

We need to recognize it, call a spade a spade, work with our departments in order to make sure that we're moving those sort of issues out of our way, that folks are conscious about this, and working to build an inclusive, welcoming community for all with family-supporting opportunities for everybody, regardless of race or where you live.

- Candidate Donovan?

- I would argue this.

The three pillars of my campaign are safer streets and neighborhoods, better schools, and good jobs.

And they all interplay with each other.

We at the local level have an obligation to ensure that our streets and neighborhoods are safe, so that everyone can go about their life and live their life without fear of walking to the corner store.

I feel so sorry for most, especially elderly people, who feel like they're prisoners in their own homes at times, because of what's going on out on our street.

Then better schools.

As mayor, I would take a much more active role in our education in all of our schools, not just MPS, but all our schools, to ensure that every child is getting the absolute best education, so that they are allowed to get themselves out of poverty and enjoy the kind of life that is possible with the right education or skill.

And then if we're able to accomplish that, we will attract the businesses, the good paying jobs and businesses into the city, because it's a safe environment and we have an educated workforce.

- Paying for some of these initiatives to help improve public safety, of course, speaks to the city budget.

Voters wanna know your plan for allocating funds and for spending their tax dollars.

Let's delve into this topic now, and Maayan, you have the first question.

- Yes, in 2022, the city allocated 16% of its budget, so basically $278 million, to policing.

How much of the city budget would you allocate to policing going forward and why, starting with candidate Donovan?

- Well, we need to increase that amount, quite frankly, most especially in this period.

I will say in any budget process, you have to set your priorities, and the priority right now for the citizens of Milwaukee and certainly for me is to improve our safety and restore a significant number of those officers, the 300 plus, that have been cut over the last several years.

So, that, I think, is certainly the priority.

- Candidate Johnson?

- [Maayan] Thank you.

That's a very important question.

Look, policing and public safety is crucial, it's key, to making sure that we have a safe community.

And a safe community allows us to have all the other things that we're talking about when we all talk about having a city that people want to live in and a city that people wanna come to.

There's a study that we're conducting right now, a matrix study, where we're looking at what the adequate number of police officers is.

So, if that comes back and says that we should have more officers, I certainly wanna fund that.

I think we should have an adequate number of police in Milwaukee.

That's part of the reason why, again, I speak frequently about the need to repair the city's broken relationship with state government, so we can have the resources necessary to fully fund our police department.

So, I'll consistently be working at that issue.

I've said I'm gonna have a cut in the capital, working at the issue constantly as mayor, so that we're able to address the issue of public safety that is so concerning to people all across the City of Milwaukee.

- Candidate Donovan, a quick response, please.

- Yes.

My quick response, for two years, you've had the opportunity to get your cut in Madison.

You've been saying that a lot.

This crisis has been going on for two years and you have done little or nothing, nothing that I'm aware of, to meaningfully address this public safety crisis.

Now, I couldn't agree more.

Yes, we need a partnership in Madison.

I believe I have the relationships already existing in Madison that can pull that partnership off.

That's what's critical.

You haven't pulled off a partnership.

You've got no cut in Madison.

You've been sitting for two years.

- Okay, so I've been there for two years, Bob was there for 20.

He says he's got these relationships that could help us out, but he hasn't implemented the use of those.

He hasn't worked to build those relationships in Madison.

Look, that's what I'm currently doing right now, that's what I'll continue doing, and the city will be better off for it.

- If I could just quickly say, under our previous administration, there was no confidence in our previous mayor.

That's why, that's why the partnership could not be pulled off.

Under my leadership, there is that confidence.

- I will say this.

I will say this before moving to the next thing that Bob says that now.

But he usually would say that a one of 15 alderman can't make that happen, right?

So, now, he complains about me being an alderman and not being able to move things forward, even though I'm working to build those relationships.

But now he says that, evidently, I was supposed to make it happen.

- And gentlemen, the next thing is drawing officers to Milwaukee.

It's one thing finding the money to support those jobs, but recruiting officers is another thing.

Everett?

- Exactly, thank you.

Even though the city's 2022 budget provides funds for three new classes of police officers, that's 195 officers, the City of Milwaukee, like many large urban areas, is still facing a shortage of police recruits.

What specifically will you do to help bring recruits into the police department?

Candidate Johnson?

- Yeah, absolutely.

And this is one of the things that we actually already worked on, when I talked about the reforms to the police department that we worked with the Fire and Police Commission to address.

First of all, I was happy, because I believe in an adequate number of police officers, and I don't wanna see the city with 200 fewer officers than where we are now.

So, we provided the funding to make sure that we're able to recruit and pay for these police officers to come in.

One of the things that we worked on with the Fire and Police Commission that they adopted was redoubling their efforts to recruit police officers that reflect the diversity that we have in the City of Milwaukee.

That's critically important.

So, we'll do that.

We'll work with the programs that currently exist, like the police aid program to bring young people into the city's rank.

And as I mentioned before, there's 26 police officers on the ground right now in Milwaukee, protecting and serving the people of this city, because I fought for a cops grant that was controversial.

But we turned around, we got the council to agree with me, we got it passed, and now those officers are on the ground protecting and serving in Milwaukee.

So, all the above.

We'll work with young people, we'll work with the police aid program, we'll work with the Fire and Police Commission, to make sure that we're recruiting the best and the brightest people from the City of Milwaukee that reflects the diversity of our city to take up the reins and protect and serve this community that we all love.

- Candidate Donovan?

- Regarding the cops grant, I just wanna indicate that I was pleased that Alderman Johnson reached out to me in retirement to help get that cops grant through.

And so I was very pleased to work with him on that.

So, that was not done by yourself, Cavalier.

Having said that, we desperately need to work hard in connecting with, and as mayor, I would want to reach out and work with the League of Martin.

I would wanna work with the Latino Police Officers Association.

We also do need to go nationwide in our recruiting.

There are police departments, one that comes to mind, Dallas, that has been doing it for years, going around the country recruiting people who wanna be police officers in Dallas to move there and so on.

But we're having difficulty.

My opponent can't get enough recruits to begin the process of filling those vacancies.

This is a real challenge.

So, we need to be thinking outside the box and being creative in making that happen.

- Can I just say on the cops grant.

Look, when you're a leader, you have to work to get things done.

You have reach across the aisle.

Bob is my opponent right now in the race for mayor, but that didn't stop me from reaching out to him, even though we did have political disagreements.

I reached out to him in order to get something done.

So, no, it was a collective effort.

I'm glad that Bob agreed to come into my employ to help get the cops grant passed.

That's what needed to be done.

- And- - You didn't pay me.

I don't wanna give the impression he paid me to do that.

- And I was the leader that got it done.

And I worked with Bob to do that.

So, thank you for mentioning that.

I think it exercises...

I think it shows that the- - I just wanted to clarify.

- I appreciate it.

I think it shows the leadership.

Because the other answer you said that I had done nothing on public safety, but then you say thank you for bringing me up to the conversation to get the cops grant passed.

- In addition to doing a deep dive on a number of topics in preparation for today's conversation, we've also been listening to you, the voter in mind.

You have a question that we received.

- Yes, we asked voters to submit questions via Facebook.

And one that kept coming up is that residents are tired of paying more and more in property taxes, while still dealing with dwindling services, problems with road conditions in the city.

How are you specifically going to address their concerns?

Would you use any of the federal pandemic relief aid money to ease the burden on residents, starting with candidate Donovan?

- I think we need all our options on the table.

And I would argue this.

We have a fiscal crisis in the City of Milwaukee.

One of the first things as mayor that I would want to do is conduct an audit of every single city department and every agency that we fund to ensure that every penny is being spent wisely and that every position is needed and productive.

I also wanna look at this as an opportunity for Milwaukee to reimagine, perhaps, how we deliver the services to our constituents, how we pay for local government.

I do believe that there are opportunities that exist for us to, perhaps, merge or consolidate some of our city departments.

I also believe some of those opportunities exist with our suburban counterparts to lessen the burden on our property tax payers.

And we also need, in our discussions with Madison, we need to create the plan or idea that brings Milwaukee more in tune and more in line with our peer cities.

In other words, giving us, perhaps, other options.

There is far too much of a burden on the property taxpayer in Milwaukee.

A high property taxes, but they are the same ones that are also hit with very high water bills.

And we put all of these fees over the years on the water bill.

That started with Mayor Norquist as one, and it has just skyrocketed under the Barrett administration.

The bottom line is there are a lot of opportunities here, if under the right leadership, we can get it done.

I will also mention the Kettle Commission years ago had some great ideas.

- Yeah, we're gonna have to move on to Candidate Johnson's response.

- Candidate Johnson, go ahead.

- Well, I think that when we say that all options are on the table in terms of using federal ARPA money, federal relief dollars, to ease the property tax burden, probably should do some bone up on that.

Because I think there are some restrictions in place about how you may be able to use those dollars, especially when there's already set revenue to come into local government.

So, one, there's that.

Two, listen, Alderman Donovan is right.

And this is why I constantly talk about rebuilding this relationship with Madison.

Milwaukee's the only large city in the United States that does not have the option to raise revenue on its own.

We are completely under the jurisdiction of what state government allows us to collect in revenue.

Those are the property tax, which I don't wanna be raising property taxes on folks, I'm a property tax payer myself.

And then you have shared revenue, which has been declining and has been flat for nearly 20 years.

We need to see an increase in our shared revenue payment, so that it is to the level that it should be.

And we should index it to inflation, so we're not falling behind or we're able to pay for our services.

The other thing, like other cities have, we should be able to have a local option sales tax to take care of the issues that we have on the ground.

And one of the things that I'd like to do with the sales tax is take a portion of that and reduce the property tax burden that we have here in Milwaukee.

So, that's how I would work to address the issue that folks have in Milwaukee in terms of increased property taxes, is working to collect money that we're currently leaving on the table that no other major city in the United States is leaving on the table.

Taking that money in from our visitors, from our commuters and others, and pushing down on the property tax burden for the people that live in our city.

- I heard the term fiscal crisis used here, and that leads to our next topic.

The city has an impending pension crisis.

Pension payments are projected to increase $74 million in just a next couple of years.

The outcome could be devastating to city services with potential, again, the potential layoff of 24%, nearly 1/4 of city employees.

Some older people have called this catastrophic.

Let's hear how the candidates plan to handle this.

Maayan?

- So, former mayor Barrett established a task force to look into three questions.

Number one, the best ways to manage the increasing costs of pensions.

Number two, the most fair changes at the state level to help the city meet these goals.

And number three, the impacts of those options on city workers and on current and future costs.

What options are you most optimistic about, and with what you know right now, do you anticipate having to cut up to 1/4 of city workers, starting with candidate Johnson?

- Yeah, that's a great question, and one that we've already been working to address.

So, in the first tranche of American rescue plan dollars, we worked to make sure that we were able to invest $30 million additional, 30 million more, into our pension reserve fund, so that we can be braced for this increase that we're gonna see.

So, we protect the services that we provide, that are delivered by the 1/4 of city employees that we're talking about, potentially, that would be eliminated, if we didn't have additional revenue.

It's important, again, that we have this partnership with the state, so that we're able to bring in revenues, so that we're able to take care of our obligations, our financial obligations, here at the local level.

So, I know that the task force has submitted a number of recommendations.

I'm interested in reviewing those and possibly implementing some of those.

But I think if we are simply able to have the revenue at the local level, we'll be able to address our problems without having to have additional investments or additional influence from the state government.

And we can do these things on our own, and we be responsible with them, but we need the revenue in order to make it happen.

And that's what I wanna see.

- Do you anticipate losing 1/4 of workers?

- I don't anticipate in losing a 1/4 of workers, and it's because of some of the actions that we've already taken to address the issue, and it's because of the actions that we're currently taking right now, working with our partners in state government, to make sure that we at the city have the revenues that we need in order to take on this issue.

And I'll say, this is well that Milwaukee is in a very acute fiscal position right now, but it's not just us.

This is a problem that's bubbling up in communities across the entire state of Wisconsin.

Last year, I went to Rhinelander.

- [Maayan] 15 seconds left.

- Yep.

Last year I went to Rhinelander, and I heard from a number of other communities across the state telling state government, that the way that local governments are funding just does not work.

So, this is happening acutely in Milwaukee, but it'll happen across the state as well.

- [Maayan] Candidate Donovan?

- I would argue this.

I do not see a way out for Milwaukee's fiscal crisis without developing and creating that partnership with the state of Wisconsin.

In discussions I have had with legislative leaders, they have told me, they do recognize that there is a need to address shared revenue, that there is a need to make some changes and address the pension obligations for the city.

So, I believe and I know that there have been discussions going on for a while, and there are different options out on the table.

I think we need to be willing and be open to all or any of those particular options.

But without a doubt, Milwaukee is in a real hole financially, and the partnership with the state is essential.

- We recently entered the third year of the pandemic.

Unemployment levels in the City of Milwaukee are more than double than they are in some areas of the state, even higher in certain neighborhoods in Milwaukee.

Prices on everything are rising, and frankly, people are worried and understandably so.

Everett has a question about job creation.

- Thanks, Mike, yes, last year, the Office of Equity and Inclusion found that the pandemic had a immense and widespread impacts on the Milwaukee workers.

Low-wage workers were hit particularly hard and workers living in Black neighborhoods experienced disproportionate unemployment impacts.

What specific steps will you take to bring jobs to challenged neighborhoods and ensure they pay a living wage?

We're gonna start with candidate Johnson.

- Thank you, that is an excellent question.

Look, we've already started addressing this as well.

So, right now, downtown, there's a sky rise that's coming outta the ground, The Couture.

It'll be the tallest residential tower in Wisconsin, and that's skyline defining, and that's great for the city, it's great for downtown.

The thing that's most exciting to me about The Couture, though, is the fact that it's gonna take a million construction hours.

And 40% of those hours, 400,000 of 'em, will go to people who live in the most depressed neighborhoods in Milwaukee, the neighborhoods that I grew up in, because of the city's residence preference program.

So, that will create an opportunity for those folks who live in disadvantaged, challenged neighborhoods to have an access point into a 21st century economy job in the trades, right?

We need to find new ways for folks to have these access points.

It's not as if we're gonna have one company that comes in and delivers 20,000 heavy manufacturing jobs like we once had in the past.

So, we need to find new ways to get folks into family-supporting jobs.

So, I wanna see more of that.

I wanna see jobs in the trades.

I wanna see tech jobs.

I wanna see green jobs.

I wanna see us do what we've done at city government and for private business throughout Milwaukee to raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour.

So, that folks are not having to work two and three jobs in order to make ends meet.

I wanna see us have people-centered development across Milwaukee, not just downtown, not just in prosperity neighborhoods, but in all neighborhoods across the city.

Because when you do that, that is what lures private development to follow.

If we build it on the public side, then it encourages that private development to follow.

In addition, with our own contracting at the local level, we have the opportunity to work to make sure that we're bringing in diverse businesses to be able to help them to scale up, to provide family-supporting opportunities to people who live here in the city.

So, we've got a whole economic prosperity plan that focuses on economic mobility for the people who live in Milwaukee, and we should be working to implement that.

- [Everett] Candidate Donovan?

- I would want, as mayor, a department of city development that is far more aggressive in reaching outside our region to attract businesses to come to Milwaukee.

And I would urge that department and insist that that department work with many of our executives currently here in Milwaukee.

Milwaukee is home to some of the best Fortune 500 companies in the country.

We need to tap into the connections that those CEOs have with other CEOs around the country, and bring some of their vendors and some of their companies that they are connected with right here in Milwaukee.

But in addition, as I've said previously, we need to take programs that work in other communities and implement them here in Milwaukee.

One of the things that I would insist on moving forward with as mayor is the Cleveland Co-op model that has been very successful in Cleveland in taking individuals who have chronically unemployed or low-skilled, training them, getting them into jobs.

And those individuals then become owners, co-owners, of the company they're working with.

It's an excellent model.

It's been successful there.

It's something that myself and others, quite frankly, James Causey of the Journal Sentinel has advocated for this.

We tried to get that implemented a few years back when I was still on the council, set up meetings with the mayor and the administration, set up meetings with the commissioner of city development.

Unfortunately, they just didn't seem too very interested, and it fell to the wayside.

But as mayor, you set the priorities, this would be one of them.

- We've done a number of stories on the success story that is Sherman Phoenix, a business hub that, of course, Maayan, can and should be replicated, you have a question about doing just that.

- Yes, I'm wondering, if elected mayor, what would be your main strategies over the next four years to encourage entrepreneurs in emerging businesses, candidate Donovan?

- Well, I would just certainly want to meet with them.

I would want to sit down and discuss what are their challenges.

That's a big part of leadership.

You bring the right people to the table.

We want to make Milwaukee a city that entrepreneurs can have confidence in and faith in.

We wanna work with the private sector in every way possible to ensure that the priorities of local government are being met by the taxpayer, but there are a lot of other initiatives, that by engaging the private sector, we can move forward with, and this would be one of them.

Our philanthropic community in Milwaukee, I would want to engage in a number of efforts to ensure that our young entrepreneurs are successful, and that Milwaukee becomes a hub of creativity.

- [Maayan] Candidate Johnson?

- Yeah.

The Sherman Phoenix is a tremendous, success story.

Brought up out of the ashes from that civil unrest that happened after the murder of George Floyd.

It's a tremendous, success story and something that should be replicated.

One of the things that I'd like to see is when we have places like that, that's encouraging entrepreneurship, that we work with those entrepreneurs to help them to build up to scale.

And then we spin them out from those hubs onto our commercial corridors to their own brick and mortar locations, allowing new companies that are starting up to come and fill those spaces, and you keep repeating that.

So, that when we have our commercial corridors across the city, that unfortunately in too many parts are vacant, with windows that are busted out or doors that are boarded up, those start to reopen again, and you start to breathe new energy, new life, and new jobs into Milwaukee broadly.

So, that's something that I wanna see.

But those entrepreneurs need a leg up.

They need an opportunity, they need to know that the city has their back.

And so what I'll work on is working to make sure that entrepreneurs in the City of Milwaukee have access to the resources that are available, not just at the city level, but at other levels of government too.

We have tremendous programs and opportunities through our Department of City Development, through the Milwaukee Economic Development Corporation, at other levels, such as Milwaukee County, in addition, to the State of Wisconsin with the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation, and a number of other partners in terms of economic development in our community as well, like WWBIC, and a whole host of others, that if we had a one-stop shop, where folks knew where the resources were, they could work to create new jobs and live out their own dreams, creating prosperity and opportunities, not just for themselves, but for people in our neighborhoods, too.

- Gentlemen, people need well-paying, family-supporting jobs in order to live comfortably, but the costs of rent, home ownerships are skyrocketing, and some of our neighborhoods need a lot of help.

Let's turn to this topic, and Everett, you have the first question.

- Yes, thanks, Mike.

Both of you have been fairly critical of our former mayor about his seeming lack of work in the neighborhoods.

Candidate Johnson, you said in a recent debate that 20 years under Tom Barrett, the depressed neighborhood you grew up in, where windows are busted out, door boarded up, haven't seen improvements.

You said, we've got to lift those neighborhoods and create stability.

What concrete steps would each of you take to do that, to improve underserved communities?

And we'll begin with you candidate Johnson.

- Yeah, and if you look at those neighborhoods and the condition, those neighborhoods were in decades ago, when there were family-supporting job opportunities there, when folks had opportunities at what's now Century City, where they could have a family-supporting job opportunity, you didn't see those conditions on the ground.

Those commercial corridors that we were just talking about in the previous question, they were filled with life.

I talked to so many elders in our community that told me, over the years, about the stability in those neighborhoods and how North Avenue, a street that I remember walking on as a kid, a young person in Milwaukee, and seeing those conditions that you're talking about, thinking that, is this normal?

And it's not, but people begin to normalize that, especially young people, young people of color, as they're walking up and down those streets, and they see those conditions year over year.

So, what I wanna see is us to get back to a point in this community, where we're providing family-supporting job opportunities for the people who live here.

Only then, only then, will we be able to be in a position where those neighborhoods can become stable, and where those opportunities for economic development on our commercial corridors can be successful.

Look, when folks have access to a family-supporting job, and they have reduced financial stress, they'll be in a position where they can buy their own home, keep a roof over their head and their children's head, buy a pizza for their kids on a Saturday night without worrying about if it breaks the bank.

- [Everett] Very briefly, how would you do that?

What are your plans?

- Sure, certainly.

And that's what we were touching on before, in terms of working with entrepreneurs, to make sure they have the opportunity to have access to the resources to start new jobs, working with our Department of City Development, working with M7 to attract new businesses to Milwaukee, using the tools that we have to lure companies here and build out opportunities, like Milwaukee Tool, that's happening downtown with up to 2000 family-supporting jobs in our city.

- [Everett] Okay, thank you.

Candidate Donovan?

- I couldn't agree more.

I believe over the last 20 years or more, we've had a downtown-centric development strategy, and we all want a prosperous and successful downtown without a doubt.

Having said that, I believe in the process of that, we have neglected our neighborhoods, and I would agree with my opponent on that aspect.

First and foremost, we need to provide order and stability in our neighborhoods.

I, again, emphasize restoring safety to our neighborhoods, and then begin the process.

Once that's accomplished, businesses will want to come in to neighborhoods.

I had met with a neighborhood organization, Lincoln Park Group, up on 24th and Hampton recently, and their biggest concern was just how filthy the neighborhood was, the litter, the debris, the illegal dumping.

Those things need to be addressed.

We also desperately need to ensure that these houses that are burnt up, fire damage, or boarded up, we either tear them down or restore them, one or the other.

We need the resources to get that done, but we begin the process one at time of taking our neighborhoods and revitalizing them.

Again, the economic development, I would emphasize the Cleveland Co-op as an example of some of the things that could be done to jumpstart a neighborhood that has been challenged for a lot of years.

- Maayan Silver?

- What do you say to community groups like LiberateMKE, who've called on city officials to reallocate $75 million from the police department to areas like housing initiatives, so that people making under $40,000 a year can afford to rent or buy a house.

Are there enough resources to prioritize basic housing needs, if money isn't reallocated from things like policing beyond federal pandemic one-time funding that we have in the City of Milwaukee?

Go ahead, candidate Johnson.

- Yeah, that's an excellent question, and I understand what the desire is.

To make sure that we have a community that everybody can thrive in, including having opportunities for people to live in homes that are affordable, so that there can be the stability in the neighborhoods that I've been talking about throughout the course of this campaign.

This is what we've done.

We invested over $40 million into the dilapidated, city-owned properties, so that we can get those properties back on the tax rolls, sell them at affordable rates to folks in the city, who need affordable housing, so those folks can go in and stabilize those neighborhoods.

So, we're working on that issue, but we're also working to make sure that there is the adequate level of public safety that our residents expect and deserve.

Listen, when I go across the city now, and certainly this was the case when I was representing the second district as alderman, folks wanna have public safety, holistic public safety, certainly, but when they call 911, they don't wanna wait for an hour or two hours for police to respond.

So, that's why it's important for us to have an adequate number of police.

But it's also important for us to make sure that when we get an infusion of resources, like we have, from the federal government, that we're tackling this very important issue of housing, which is a root cause issue as well.

And so we've done both.

We've been able to make sure that we don't take our eye off the ball in terms of public safety and making the investments there, which I think are critical and important, but we also have made these investments in housing as well with the federal money that's come in.

So, we've been working to do both of those things simultaneously in Milwaukee.

- [Maayan] Candidate Donovan?

- I would...

Certainly, when it comes to housing, I would want to appoint a director of housing for the City of Milwaukee to work with the private sector, to work with our developers, to ensure that we're building quality, low-income housing that's available.

In addition, we've got somewhere in the area of 20 agencies that all do wonderful things, but go in different directions regarding housing and so on.

I think we need to ensure that they are under one roof and under one control of a housing director, so that we can have a one-stop shopping for help on identifying and helping individuals who need low-income housing.

Having said that, the goal of my administration would be to have less and less low-income housing, because we have fewer and fewer low-income individuals.

So, that needs to be the number one objective.

I would also reach out to Wausau Homes, come to Century City, build a plant here, hire some people from the neighborhood, and let's use some of these prefabricated homes and build them on the many vacant lots that we have in the City of Milwaukee, and perhaps build them without basements.

That saves 30,000 bucks, at least, on the building of a new home.

There are, I believe, opportunities to take a look at these issues a little differently and see what progress can be made.

- We wanna get to one more topic, an important one, today's children are tomorrow's future.

The pandemic certainly has taken a toll on education.

We have a nationwide teacher shortage, including here in this area.

A bill approved by the state lawmakers, state legislature, and sent to Governor Evers would break up MPS into multiple districts.

Let's turn to the candidates attention on this issue here.

Everett, you have the first question.

- Sure, and too many Milwaukee students attend segregated, low-achieving schools.

To candidate Johnson, you said that, as mayor, you would leave school policy to school boards, while working to improve kids' lives through other relevant city policy and resources.

Candidate Donovan, you said that, as mayor, you would wanna take an active role in working with superintendents and school boards.

How specifically would you each try to help create better learning environments for students?

And this is the last question, so candidate Johnson, you can start.

- Yeah, and thank you very much for the question.

Look, in relation to the bill that was put forward, I did not support it, 'cause, one, I'm a graduate of Milwaukee Public Schools, I am the sitting mayor, I'm the father of a young person in Milwaukee Public Schools, and I've got two daughters, who just a week ago turned four in this fall, will go to Milwaukee Public Schools.

And none of those capacities did the legislature or any of the members reach out to me for that.

To answer your question more specifically, in order to address the issues that we have at education, we've gotta get to the root cause, issues that are causing kids to not be able to learn.

So, if a kid is going to school and they're hungry, that affects their learning.

I know that, because I had food insecurity as a kid growing up.

So, that's something that a mayor can do something about.

If a kid lives in a neighborhood, where they're facing trauma and they go to sleep to the sounds of bullets flying overhead, another thing that I know of 'cause I lived in those neighborhoods, that's something that a mayor can do something about.

If a kid comes from a family that's got housing instability, and they're moving around time to time and they have to attend multiple schools over the years, which I had to do, I attended six different schools in MPS, that's something that a mayor can do something about, helping those parents to get the stability that they need in their lives.

So, I wanna address those things on the outside, because it affects all students across the entire education spectrum in Milwaukee.

- [Everett] Okay, candidate Donovan.

- I would simply say this.

You cannot have a great city without great schools.

And I believe education is so vitally important to the future of our children and also this city, that if the mayor does not take a much more active role, he's actually being negligent in his duties to help this city become the best city in America.

So, I want to empower parents.

I've always been a believer in school choice.

I believe one size does not fit all.

As a father of five, I know that from experience.

So, I want to empower our parents recognizing that they're the first educators of our children.

And whichever school they choose, public, private, charter, that they get the best possible education.

- Gentlemen, thank you, and that concludes the main questioning of our two mayoral candidates.

Thank you, Maayan and Everett.

Each candidate will now have 30 seconds for a brief closing statement.

We begin with candidate Johnson.

- Well, thank you very much.

I really appreciate having the opportunity to come on, to be with you all here today.

Milwaukee's got a series of challenges, but we have tremendous hope and tremendous potential for the city's future.

I wanna build a Milwaukee that is stronger.

I wanna build a Milwaukee that is safer.

I wanna build a Milwaukee that's more prosperous for everybody.

And that's why I'm asking for the citizens of Milwaukee, if you haven't voted early for me already, to please do so on Tuesday, April 5th.

- [Mike] Candidate, Donovan?

- April 5th is decision day in the City of Milwaukee.

Do we continue to go down the same old path?

Do we continue to elect more of the same, the same kinds of individuals, who got us into this mess, or do we go in a different direction?

I believe for 20 years, I served the residents of Milwaukee and developed a reputation of getting things done.

I will bring that to the mayor's office.

I'm asking for your vote on April 5th.

Let's get Milwaukee working again.

- Thank you, gentlemen, Your eighth conversation during this campaign, and the last scheduled one as well.

- All right.

- Thank you, candidates Johnson and Donovan for tonight's conversation.

On behalf of myself, CBS 58, and WMLW, and our partners at 89.7 WUWM Milwaukee's NPR, and those here at Milwaukee PBS, thank you for watching.

And don't forget to vote early, or on April 5th.

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